Kolektoři 1 – Alberto Di Stefano
Alberto di Stefano se narodil roku 1964 v Římě. Studoval na fakultě architektury římské university La Sapienza obor dějiny architektury a restaurování památek, což se stalo jeho celoživotní vášní. Roku 1985 navštívil poprvé Prahu, kam se na počátku 90. let během studia na frankfurtské universitě několikrát vrátil, aby se zde roku 1994 usadil natrvalo. Téhož roku založil společnost Itaka Reality. Hlavním zaměřením společnosti jsou renovace a obnova historických budov a konverze tzv. brownfields. Di Stefano se tak rozhodl pokračovat v tradici rodinné společnosti, která se zabývá stavbami a jejich obnovováním v Římě aktivně už od 20. let minulého století.
Už před rokem 2000 se začala formovat jeho sbírka současného umění, kterou mu pomáhal a pomáhá utvářet Eugenio Percossi, italský umělec žijící v Praze. Z jejich iniciativy vzniklo roku 2003 Centrum pro současné umění FUTURA, rozšířené následně o prostory Karlin Studios. Posláním centra je především prezentace současného umění a rozvinutí mezinárodních kontaktů prostřednictvím rezidenčních programů.
Sbírka Alberta di Stefana a Eugenia Percossiho má, vzhledem k dění na české umělecké scéně, reprezentativní charakter a je v ní zastoupena i řada zahraničních umělců, především těch, kteří vystavovali v rámci projektů centra. Sběratelé se nesoustředí na žádný typ média výlučně, jsou vedeni především osobním vkusem, nikoli obchodní hodnotou děl. Ta spoluutváří jejich životní prostor na zrekonstruovaném zámku v Třebešicích, kde je k vidění i množství specifických uměleckých instalací a realizací in situ. Zámek je z větší části přístupný veřejnosti, takže sbírka není izolovaná v privátní sféře. V současné době probíhá její první souborná katalogizace.
- COLLECTORS00:00:13.511
- 00:00:13.511
- Alberto Di Stefano interviewed by Tereza Jindrová00:00:18.070
- 00:00:18.070
- Alberto Di Stefano, you were born on 11th July, 1964 in Rome.00:00:23.162
- 00:00:23.162
- Your father was a civil engineer and designer.00:00:29.066
- 00:00:29.066
- Your mum was a teacher of mathematics and physics.00:00:32.161
- 00:00:32.161
- You have got two sisters.00:00:34.937
- 00:00:34.937
- You studied history of architecture and restoration at La Sapienza in Rome.00:00:36.822
- 00:00:36.822
- You first came to Prague in 1985 and spent your last year of studies in Frankfurt in 1991.00:00:46.742
- 00:00:46.742
- You visited Prague many times at that time and settled there for good in 1994.00:00:57.477
- 00:00:57.477
- I wonder why you chose the Czech Republic and Prague.00:01:05.144
- 00:01:05.144
- What attracted you there?00:01:10.792
- 00:01:10.792
- I remember Prague was in the 1980s00:01:12.856
- 00:01:12.856
- incredibly romantic for a young student of architecture.00:01:17.058
- 00:01:17.058
- There were many old buildings before reconstruction,00:01:23.240
- 00:01:23.240
- everything was under scaffolding, the facades were black,00:01:28.213
- 00:01:28.213
- all shops closed as if they had closed before war and never opened again.00:01:32.338
- 00:01:32.338
- Prague looked like a world waiting for being discovered.00:01:40.645
- 00:01:40.645
- After 1989 it became more lively and there were more possibilities00:01:45.964
- 00:01:45.964
- and suddenly there appeared more things that attracted me.00:01:54.116
- 00:01:54.116
- Not only the beauty of the old town, art and architecture00:01:58.841
- 00:01:58.841
- but also business opportunities to invest at the beginning of my career.00:02:03.251
- 00:02:03.251
- It all linked and I suddenly realized I was living in Prague.00:02:08.887
- 00:02:08.887
- I would never decide to move to Prague without it.00:02:14.363
- 00:02:14.363
- It came all naturally and gradually.00:02:19.105
- 00:02:19.105
- How was your relation to art and culture formed?00:02:24.214
- 00:02:24.214
- Was there any influence of your family, parents or grandparents?00:02:27.326
- 00:02:27.326
- My parents loved art, especially the old one.00:02:33.757
- 00:02:33.757
- I remember my first visit to Venice when I was six,00:02:38.371
- 00:02:38.371
- or to the Louvre Museum in Paris when I was eight.00:02:44.264
- 00:02:44.264
- It made a great impression on me as a small child.00:02:48.001
- 00:02:48.001
- I remember walking around churches in Rome with my mum,00:02:53.123
- 00:02:53.123
- discovering Caravaggio or rather morbid memento mori00:02:56.843
- 00:02:56.843
- our baroque churches certainly do not lack in.00:03:02.812
- 00:03:02.812
- I guess the relation to art was quite strong in our family,00:03:08.527
- 00:03:08.527
- my dad used to collect old paintings, especially Madonnas with child,00:03:14.030
- 00:03:14.030
- our flat in Rome was full of these huge old paintings.00:03:20.342
- 00:03:20.342
- I have definitely drawn something from that.00:03:25.527
- 00:03:25.527
- My dad was also friends with a relatively good painter from Poland,00:03:29.509
- 00:03:29.509
- who sometimes came to Italy and he would paint for my dad.00:03:33.518
- 00:03:33.518
- So he had other art too, but nothing contemporary.00:03:39.043
- 00:03:39.043
- My mum hates all the art we have here00:03:44.725
- 00:03:44.725
- but that's part of the game.00:03:48.170
- 00:03:48.170
- But the background of my childhood certainly influenced me,00:03:50.578
- 00:03:50.578
- the passion for books, travelling and art as well.00:03:57.404
- 00:03:57.404
- You have already mentioned your passion for old architecture,00:04:04.347
- 00:04:04.347
- but how was your concern in contemporary art awakened?00:04:08.028
- 00:04:08.028
- It was a gradual process, but it's mainly thanks to my friend Eugenio.00:04:15.642
- 00:04:15.642
- He is an artist and when we met twenty years ago,00:04:21.386
- 00:04:21.386
- he was at the very beginning of his career.00:04:25.108
- 00:04:25.108
- We would visit galleries more actively together,00:04:27.670
- 00:04:27.670
- I went to the Venice Biennale with him for the first time.00:04:31.792
- 00:04:31.792
- and gradually the idea of establishing a small centre00:04:36.869
- 00:04:36.869
- for contemporary art in Prague appeared.00:04:41.478
- 00:04:41.478
- So that's how the Futura was established.00:04:49.025
- 00:04:49.025
- Your interest in art is not only collecting00:04:52.893
- 00:04:52.893
- but is also determined by the activities of the Centre00:04:58.029
- 00:04:58.029
- for Contemporary Art Futura. Can you please describe00:05:02.134
- 00:05:02.134
- how you select art for your private collection?00:05:06.189
- 00:05:06.189
- I don't consider myself a typical collector00:05:12.274
- 00:05:12.274
- and our collection is not standard as well.00:05:15.041
- 00:05:15.041
- The art we have here in Třebešice is rather00:05:17.005
- 00:05:17.005
- the outcome of a certain art process we got involved in,00:05:21.547
- 00:05:21.547
- originally with Futura and later with Karlín Studios in Prague.00:05:28.549
- 00:05:28.549
- We have also organized several residential stays00:05:34.918
- 00:05:34.918
- for artists in Prague, Třebešice and New York.00:05:37.864
- 00:05:37.864
- The artists are challenged to create00:05:43.417
- 00:05:43.417
- something during their residential stay.00:05:47.191
- 00:05:47.191
- When we came to Třebešice in 2000,00:05:49.889
- 00:05:49.889
- it was a dilapidated ruin and I felt00:05:53.360
- 00:05:53.360
- an urge to do something about it.00:05:58.543
- 00:05:58.543
- I love old art and furniture but I couldn't imagine reconstructing00:06:04.419
- 00:06:04.419
- the whole Renaissance castle and its subsequent furnishing00:06:09.654
- 00:06:09.654
- with Renaissance or pseudo-Renaissance furniture00:06:16.323
- 00:06:16.323
- and creating a historical interior.00:06:19.406
- 00:06:19.406
- In my opinion the castle should live its new era00:06:21.403
- 00:06:21.403
- and that is why I got an idea to invite00:06:25.482
- 00:06:25.482
- both Czech and foreign artists.00:06:30.424
- 00:06:30.424
- Even Futura in Prague is rooted in Třebešice.00:06:36.763
- 00:06:36.763
- First we discovered the castle and started to work on it.00:06:42.603
- 00:06:42.603
- There is a lot of beautiful space and we wanted00:06:47.369
- 00:06:47.369
- to invite artists from all over the world to come,00:06:53.498
- 00:06:53.498
- relax and create something as well.00:06:57.388
- 00:06:57.388
- And during the work we discovered that00:07:00.605
- 00:07:00.605
- inviting people from the United States or other distant countries00:07:05.993
- 00:07:05.993
- to spent one month in the Czech countryside is quite absurd00:07:11.922
- 00:07:11.922
- and we decided to find some place in Prague,00:07:16.868
- 00:07:16.868
- where we could present their work.00:07:20.314
- 00:07:20.314
- So we started to look for some place in Prague00:07:24.726
- 00:07:24.726
- and we found the building where Futura is today.00:07:28.844
- 00:07:28.844
- Paradoxically, the Futura had been opened before Třebešice,00:07:33.050
- 00:07:33.050
- but the initial project originated in Třebešice.00:07:36.201
- 00:07:36.201
- The project doesn't go along with the Futura building itself00:07:41.208
- 00:07:41.208
- or the factory in Karlín, I regard Futura as00:07:46.286
- 00:07:46.286
- a project rather than a physical place or a gallery.00:07:53.275
- 00:07:53.275
- It's an effort to take part in the game actively.00:07:59.219
- 00:07:59.219
- Contemporary art has always been a great game for me,00:08:03.204
- 00:08:03.204
- and the artists have to respond to it.00:08:07.203
- 00:08:07.203
- I want to help them to get into the public awareness,00:08:10.443
- 00:08:10.443
- give them chance to create and present their work.00:08:15.418
- 00:08:15.418
- Artwork from your collection has been shaping your00:08:19.642
- 00:08:19.642
- living space here in Třebešice castle.00:08:23.285
- 00:08:23.285
- Have you ever sold anything from your collection?00:08:26.415
- 00:08:26.415
- Or is it such an intimate relation and every00:08:30.859
- 00:08:30.859
- artwork you obtain has its stable position?00:08:35.256
- 00:08:35.256
- I haven't sold any artwork so far and00:08:40.882
- 00:08:40.882
- I don't feel like it, but you never know...00:08:44.124
- 00:08:44.124
- The truth is I don't really like some pieces in my collection,00:08:49.822
- 00:08:49.822
- and I also have changed my mind in the course of time,00:08:53.084
- 00:08:53.084
- so it can't be ruled out completely.00:08:57.046
- 00:08:57.046
- I don't take most of the art I buy as an investment,00:08:59.458
- 00:08:59.458
- I'm not a typical collector, the material value doesn't00:09:03.523
- 00:09:03.523
- play a big part in my deciding whether to have it or not.00:09:08.403
- 00:09:08.403
- It's more about an enthusiasm,00:09:13.021
- 00:09:13.021
- when I really like something and want to have it.00:09:15.884
- 00:09:15.884
- Collecting is a desire to own something.00:09:19.938
- 00:09:19.938
- Unlike other people I like possessing these things,00:09:30.223
- 00:09:30.223
- but I don't want to have them locked in a storage.00:09:35.231
- 00:09:35.231
- So everything I have in my collection is accessible,00:09:42.438
- 00:09:42.438
- we opened the castle and everything displayed there can be seen.00:09:46.494
- 00:09:46.494
- There are pieces I have more intimate relation to00:09:55.739
- 00:09:55.739
- from various reasons. For example this cat rug00:10:01.845
- 00:10:01.845
- from Ondřej Brody. It's an interesting and controversial work,00:10:06.685
- 00:10:06.685
- it always invokes vivid reactions of our visitors.00:10:13.462
- 00:10:13.462
- When my mum comes once or twice a year,00:10:20.964
- 00:10:20.964
- I always have to roll it and hide it.00:10:24.888
- 00:10:24.888
- She can't see it at all, because it reminds her00:10:31.012
- 00:10:31.012
- of a beloved cat she had twenty years ago.00:10:35.533
- 00:10:35.533
- I don't know whether to mention the bread charnel-house00:10:39.101
- 00:10:39.101
- we have in the south tower.00:10:42.653
- 00:10:42.653
- It is made of bread, there are three or four00:10:46.322
- 00:10:46.322
- hundred skulls made of bread dough.00:10:49.179
- 00:10:49.179
- It's a bit scary and many people may find00:10:52.618
- 00:10:52.618
- it uncomfortable to have it right next to the dining hall.00:10:56.114
- 00:10:56.114
- But as it's of bread, mice eat it in winter00:11:01.761
- 00:11:01.761
- and flies and moths in summer, so we have trouble with it.00:11:07.447
- 00:11:07.447
- So we have decided to move it somewhere out the next year,00:11:19.578
- 00:11:19.578
- it has been in the castle for ten years00:11:24.169
- 00:11:24.169
- and coexistence with such art has certain limits.00:11:28.244
- 00:11:28.244
- Your collection is quite various, it can't be said00:11:33.007
- 00:11:33.007
- you focus solely on painting or sculpture.00:11:36.119
- 00:11:36.119
- How do you choose art for your collection?00:11:42.033
- 00:11:42.033
- There is not any specific clue, it's mostly work of artists00:11:49.468
- 00:11:49.468
- who exhibited in Futura or Karlín and whose work we are interested in.00:11:54.566
- 00:11:54.566
- Of course we can't have work of all the artists who had exhibitions there.00:12:00.602
- 00:12:00.602
- But we got to know some of the them better and had00:12:07.563
- 00:12:07.563
- opportunity to gain or buy some of their work00:12:12.825
- 00:12:12.825
- or we had something created by them for a specific place.00:12:15.832
- 00:12:15.832
- Many site specifics we had here resulted00:12:20.826
- 00:12:20.826
- from our mutual dialogue or agreement.00:12:26.932
- 00:12:26.932
- We can't always accept the first suggestion the artists make.00:12:30.665
- 00:12:30.665
- We came across several extravagant and crazy ideas00:12:36.817
- 00:12:36.817
- that would quite radically affect the operation of00:12:40.808
- 00:12:40.808
- this place or our lives in a negative way.00:12:46.461
- 00:12:46.461
- So there is some filter, but we certainly don't want to censor anything.00:12:50.539
- 00:12:50.539
- But at the same time we can't blindly accept everything.00:12:55.107
- 00:12:55.107
- Do you remember the first piece you got hold of?00:13:00.329
- 00:13:00.329
- I certainly don't, but I can mention the work of00:13:06.213
- 00:13:06.213
- Jan Jakub Kotík as the first piece in our modern art collection.00:13:11.957
- 00:13:11.957
- It's an installation made directly for the Futura opening00:13:17.561
- 00:13:17.561
- in summer 2003 and we bought it00:13:22.790
- 00:13:22.790
- from the artist when the exhibition ended.00:13:26.048
- 00:13:26.048
- I remember the first video we bought from Mark Ther.00:13:29.365
- 00:13:29.365
- Or the first exhibition I organized in 1990s00:13:34.708
- 00:13:34.708
- in Rome and which was a disgrace...00:13:41.668
- 00:13:41.668
- Logically my attitude to painting and art has changed.00:13:46.964
- 00:13:46.964
- As I said before I consider everything in my collection00:13:52.331
- 00:13:52.331
- to be equally good art which is normal I guess.00:13:57.337
- 00:13:57.337
- At that time I was quite interested in painting,00:14:00.535
- 00:14:00.535
- but some art I would not display today or00:14:04.701
- 00:14:04.701
- I wouldn't like to have it in my collection.00:14:08.212
- 00:14:08.212
- Is there anyone who influences your selection,00:14:12.179
- 00:14:12.179
- any personality whose advice you take and who you trust?00:14:16.500
- 00:14:16.500
- Any theorists, gallery owners or curators?00:14:21.926
- 00:14:21.926
- I can't mention anybody specific, but we of course follow00:14:29.692
- 00:14:29.692
- all the events at both Czech and foreign art platform.00:14:34.006
- 00:14:34.006
- We go to exhibitions, follow Artyčok, read articles and so on.00:14:39.535
- 00:14:39.535
- Last but not least, the Futura has been always opened00:14:48.909
- 00:14:48.909
- to a co-operation with Czech and foreign curators.00:14:52.910
- 00:14:52.910
- Thanks to the curators we could get involved in broader circle of artists.00:14:58.794
- 00:14:58.794
- There was a beautiful workshop several years ago with the American curator,00:15:07.726
- 00:15:07.726
- Cuban living in New York, Omar Chahoud.00:15:15.265
- 00:15:15.265
- He selected artists in New York who came here00:15:18.806
- 00:15:18.806
- and whose work we have in our collection.00:15:25.657
- 00:15:25.657
- We co-operated with Emanuela Nobile Mino, Czech curators...00:15:29.009
- 00:15:29.009
- We are open to any advice but of course we make the final decision.00:15:32.616
- 00:15:32.616
- You've just started listing your collection.00:15:42.557
- 00:15:42.557
- Can you estimate the total number of artwork in your collection?00:15:46.483
- 00:15:46.483
- Not precisely. Here in Třebešice,00:15:55.468
- 00:15:55.468
- inside the castle and outside in the granary,00:16:00.261
- 00:16:00.261
- we have about eighty pieces of artwork and installations.00:16:04.548
- 00:16:04.548
- The second part of our collection is stored in a depositary.00:16:08.605
- 00:16:08.605
- Although the word depositary doesn't fit the reality unfortunately.00:16:13.307
- 00:16:13.307
- Something is stored here and in Karlín, but a big part is still with the artists00:16:19.833
- 00:16:19.833
- who had sold us their work but they haven't given it to us so far.00:16:25.419
- 00:16:25.419
- Our attempt to list the collection is the first one to make a systematic00:16:30.563
- 00:16:30.563
- list of what we have and we'd like to grasp00:16:39.058
- 00:16:39.058
- a certain context and link the works together.00:16:45.000
- 00:16:45.000
- We also want our collection to be accessible for loans abroad.00:16:51.281
- 00:16:51.281
- You said you were open to art bestowals for exhibitions.00:17:00.077
- 00:17:00.077
- What are your requirements?00:17:05.959
- 00:17:05.959
- Is there any artwork you would not lend to any exhibition?00:17:08.954
- 00:17:08.954
- If the exhibition is quality, and we are assured that00:17:15.937
- 00:17:15.937
- the work won't be damaged and is well insured, we don't resist.00:17:20.963
- 00:17:20.963
- For example the Kotík's installation behind us00:17:24.946
- 00:17:24.946
- has been loaned two or three times.00:17:28.822
- 00:17:28.822
- Last year it was at Veletržní Palace, before that at Musée Saint-Étienne in France00:17:32.437
- 00:17:32.437
- and it will certainly travel again in the future.00:17:38.133
- 00:17:38.133
- I think there isn't any work I wouldn't bestow,00:17:42.824
- 00:17:42.824
- I don't even know any reason why shouldn't I.00:17:46.995
- 00:17:46.995
- We don't have any work that is delicate to that extent00:17:51.519
- 00:17:51.519
- in our collection. We don't have any Renaissance masterpieces00:17:54.687
- 00:17:54.687
- that could be damaged during the transport.00:17:58.463
- 00:17:58.463
- So if the exhibition is quality or important,00:18:01.204
- 00:18:01.204
- we don't have any problem with it.00:18:06.196
- 00:18:06.196
- Have you ever considered donating your collection to any institution?00:18:09.547
- 00:18:09.547
- Of course me and my friend have dealt many times00:18:15.483
- 00:18:15.483
- with the question what was going to happen when00:18:19.636
- 00:18:19.636
- we weren't here any more. It is unfortunately evident00:18:21.678
- 00:18:21.678
- we won't be here forever. We would like to preserve00:18:25.217
- 00:18:25.217
- the collection in one piece and as it often was created00:18:30.207
- 00:18:30.207
- for a specific place it would be great if it stayed here.00:18:35.804
- 00:18:35.804
- How to accomplish such aim is a question.00:18:41.817
- 00:18:41.817
- We may establish a foundation or donate it to the community,00:18:46.351
- 00:18:46.351
- city, region or the state if they are ever interested.00:18:52.229
- 00:18:52.229
- I think that our attempt to arrange the collection rationally00:18:56.223
- 00:18:56.223
- and to make a catalogue which is going to be online,00:19:01.325
- 00:19:01.325
- is the first move towards a certain institutionalization00:19:05.715
- 00:19:05.715
- of the collection and its organization00:19:12.669
- 00:19:12.669
- so that it isn't any spontaneous adventure of the two of us.00:19:15.705
- 00:19:15.705
- We want the collection to gain a certain dignity to outlive us.00:19:21.596
- 00:19:21.596
- What do you plan for the coming years in Třebešice?00:19:29.385
- 00:19:29.385
- The castle's operation and especially its garden00:19:38.661
- 00:19:38.661
- take us quite a lot of time and energy.00:19:44.415
- 00:19:44.415
- However we try to carry on step by step.00:19:47.420
- 00:19:47.420
- With the help of volunteers we started to00:19:52.617
- 00:19:52.617
- reconstruct our big granary last summer.00:19:55.782
- 00:19:55.782
- We have a beautiful baroque granary and we would like to00:20:02.249
- 00:20:02.249
- store another part of our collection there, ideally during the next year.00:20:07.688
- 00:20:07.688
- We would like to take a part of the collection00:20:13.721
- 00:20:13.721
- from the depository and make it accessible to public.00:20:17.265
- 00:20:17.265
- We have a crucial installation by Ján Mančuška who had an exhibition00:20:21.979
- 00:20:21.979
- in Futura within Jindřich Chalupecký Award Final.00:20:26.069
- 00:20:26.069
- It's a wall with inscriptions and it hasn't been displayed for ten years.00:20:30.312
- 00:20:30.312
- We bought it at that time and still have it in the depository.00:20:38.791
- 00:20:38.791
- Pavlína Morganová told us she wanted to make00:20:42.575
- 00:20:42.575
- a big exhibition the next year and I'm sure it will be00:20:47.339
- 00:20:47.339
- a great opportunity to arrange it in the granary.00:20:51.656
- 00:20:51.656
- Of course there was done just a fraction00:20:59.885
- 00:20:59.885
- of work that should be done.00:21:03.593
- 00:21:03.593
- There are huge farm buildings waiting for reconstruction.00:21:06.909
- 00:21:06.909
- A big barn, a small barn, cow barns and so on.00:21:14.108
- 00:21:14.108
- There is a lot of work for the next three or four generations as well.00:21:17.542
- 00:21:17.542
- The more I hope we will come up with a system00:21:22.651
- 00:21:22.651
- that would keep the project going even when we are not here any more.00:21:26.525