Living Memorial

• Our point of departure was the governmental decision,00:00:26.100
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• which was unexpectedly made public on 19 March 2014,00:00:33.138
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• a memorial of the 70th anniversary of the German occupation of Hungary was00:00:37.992
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• to be unveiled on Szabadság Square. A huge public scandal broke out in00:00:46.322
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• connection with this for a number of reasons. One was that no one understood00:00:54.914
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• why the 70th anniversary of the Nazi occupation of Hungary deserved00:01:02.026
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• a memorial. Secondly, all this happened without anything leading up to it,00:01:06.565
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• the public didn’t know anything about it. By way of an insinuation,00:01:13.638
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• a secret governmental decision was unexpectedly revealed to the public.00:01:20.414
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• What we found was a jumbled mess of a description, a distorted, Xerox image of00:01:26.119
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• very poor quality, and a foggy background story about why this event had to be00:01:31.387
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• commemorated in Hungary.00:01:35.287
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• The debate that was sparked was, of course, primarily of a political and00:01:36.869
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• memory-political debate. Obviously the loudest protest came from Jewish00:01:42.908
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• organizations and groups that didn’t regard the German occupation00:01:50.354
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• on 19 March 1944 an event deserving of celebration in Hungary.00:01:57.434
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• Nobody understood why this should happen.00:02:04.135
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• To this, the government in its discomposure, re-qualified the memorial00:02:06.352
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• of the occupation as a memorial for the innocent victims of the occupation00:02:13.190
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• which was not originally part of the government decision. This elicited an even00:02:18.543
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• greater uproar, because if we are talking about all Hungarian victims, then we blur00:02:24.232
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• together the 430,000 Hungarian Jews and Roma who fell victim to the holocaust00:02:32.898
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• with the non-Jewish Hungarians who, albeit few in numbers,00:02:41.371
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• suffered from the German occupation.00:02:49.013
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• So this sparked a political debate. This was just before the elections, the whole thing00:02:56.923
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• was coloured by the back and forth between feuding political parties.00:03:04.276
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• And in this great chaos and cacophony, I thought along with a few sculptors and00:03:12.099
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• artist friends that we need to do something about this memorial.00:03:21.412
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• When the idea first came up, of the 'Free Artists', Csaba Nemes, Szabolcs KissPál,00:03:34.636
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• Balázs Kicsiny, György Jovánovics and myself were present, and we came up00:03:45.408
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• with the concept. Then we were joined by sociologists, professors from00:03:53.763
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• the Sociology Department at ELTE. We should also mention the significance00:04:01.186
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• of the Human Platform, which provided an organizational background:00:04:07.461
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• we could meet in their offices, we organized the actions with their00:04:11.657
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• logistical help. I could also mention András Lukács, who played an important00:04:17.404
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• role in all this. These colleagues are all artists working in the public eye, and all of00:04:25.044
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• them had worked with the topics of memorials, remembering and memory.00:04:31.724
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• We began to think about it and had the idea that we somehow had to00:04:42.981
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• appropriate Szabadság Square – the venue being one of the most00:04:50.560
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• debated points of this whole plan. No one could understand how such a00:04:57.005
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• historicizing memorial could be designed to be placed above a garage entrance.00:05:03.091
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• This was an unsuitable location for raising a memorial from every possible00:05:11.311
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• perspective. A road passes right in front of it, there is a large, cascading fountain00:05:17.627
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• in front of it. It’s unsuitable in every respect in terms of approaching it00:05:24.729
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• and viewing it. Nobody could understand the reason behind the haste and00:05:29.487
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• behind choosing this location. As a result of the debate, the government00:05:36.508
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• abandoned its plans to adhere to this prompt deadline and the Prime Minister00:05:43.543
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• appeared ready to only return to this question after the elections,00:05:50.295
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• to remove this matter from the themes and topics of the political campaign and00:05:54.943
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• the election process. Which was false justification, as a historical lie is00:05:59.000
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• a lie regardless of whether it’s articulated before or after the elections.00:06:05.922
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• So they shouldn’t have referred to this as a reason. Nevertheless, everyone thought00:06:11.000
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• that the date for erecting the memorial was postponed for a while, so we would00:06:16.661
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• have time for proper discussion. We were all the more surprised when,00:06:21.480
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• on the day following the election, having secured two-thirds of the votes,00:06:27.366
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• without a word, the governing party began construction. This resulted in more00:06:32.030
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• forceful civil opposition, various civic organizations appeared on the square.00:06:37.392
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• Political parties were, of course, following this as well. The cordons were regularly00:06:41.513
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• taken down and the matter was dragged out for weeks.00:06:46.281
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• I think it’s important to stress that our initiative, from the first moment on,00:06:50.493
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• aimed to remove this from the conflict field of governing party vs. opposition,00:06:58.637
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• and party politics in general. Not that this field is not a natural part of everyday life,00:07:07.085
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• but because memory politics – the matter of social memory – in our eyes, is more00:07:15.522
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• important, or at least of a different dimension, than political strife.00:07:24.066
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• We decided that we would time our action to take place before the election,00:07:30.776
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• on 23 March. This was a location-specific, artistically oriented – but not art or00:07:36.594
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• artist-related – reflection. We came up with the idea that this space should00:07:41.681
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• somehow be sanctified and transformed into a place of reverence before they00:07:50.104
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• could start construction, so that it would be more difficult – or impossible –00:07:56.233
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• to gain access to it for construction. We wanted to occupy this place.00:08:02.067
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• So we had the idea to ask the residents of Pest to come to this place00:08:10.377
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• in flash mob style. There was nothing there yet aside from the garage entrance.00:08:16.544
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• We asked them to bring personal objects with them and place it on the spot where00:08:24.165
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• the memorial was to be built. In parallel with this, we also came up with00:08:31.167
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• another idea – and this was how created the title “Living Memorial”, which is what00:08:37.011
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• we called it from the start. The idea was to initiate conversations on this site that00:08:44.515
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• were befitting of the nature of memory. The basic notion behind this was that00:08:50.963
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• remembering is always human communication.00:08:56.669
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• I think it’s important to emphasize that this was not a Jewish matter – although00:09:00.863
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• remembering the Holocaust was, of course, the most substantial part00:09:07.965
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• of the whole thing. Jewish trauma is not the only trauma that exists in this country:00:09:13.114
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• there is Trianon trauma, displacement trauma, as well as the trauma of the00:09:17.817
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• victims of the communist regime. So there are a lot of different historical traumas00:09:23.163
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• that society has to process through speaking about it, people need to share00:09:28.877
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• these stories with one another. The way to do this is through00:09:35.307
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• conversation, which became the main, central metaphor of our action. Let us00:09:40.353
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• talk, in other words, remember, in other words, think, in other words, exchange00:09:44.886
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• ideas and open up to one another.00:09:52.319
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• It was the idea of György Jovánovics, Kossuth Prize-winning sculptor,00:09:56.152
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• to make the two white chairs facing one another the visual emblem of this00:09:59.970
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• „conversation-memorial”. We placed the chairs in the place of the memorial.00:10:06.004
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• It symbolized the people that would sit down on these chairs facing each other00:10:11.448
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• and began their discussion. It was when the construction began and these00:10:15.649
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• cordon-removing actions and political demonstrations were taking place00:10:21.298
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• that we begin, in April, our action with the chairs. We bought some white chairs and00:10:27.559
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• we placed them in a circle facing each other. We started a talk circle.00:10:34.579
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• This talk circle is what is still referred to today as “Living Memorial”.00:10:39.905
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• It’s a memorial that isn’t manifested in a sculpture or some kind of plastic object,00:10:47.441
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• but in the living persons that come there to have a conversation00:10:52.803
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• and thereby keep memory alive.00:10:56.957
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• The memorial, against which our counter-memorial was created, and our00:11:00.224
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• living memorial now stand opposite each other embodying a kind of geometric00:11:08.645
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• perfection. If you go to Szabadság Square, you can see these two very different00:11:16.089
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• memorials, these two differing modes of remembering. The original memorial,00:11:24.849
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• commissioned by the government to be designed by Párkányi Raab Péter,00:11:32.841
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• is a classic example of a national memorial. These were created all over00:11:38.905
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• Europe in the 19th century as symbolic commemorations of newly established00:11:45.976
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• states, in accordance with their own historical narrative. In Budapest, it was00:11:51.888
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• the Millennium Monument on Hero’s Square that provided the most prominent00:12:00.120
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• representation of the framework within which Hungarian history was00:12:07.189
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• conceptualized by the ruling class in the late 19th century. This monument00:12:14.823
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• symbolizes the Hungarian conquest of the Carpathian Basin, the conquering00:12:23.968
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• Hungarian chieftains, Christianity and a thousand years of Hungarian history00:12:34.336
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• within a single, grand framework.00:12:41.663
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• The governments of freshly formed nation states liked to erect such00:12:47.009
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• national monuments, which served to represent their own legitimacy and00:12:55.370
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• validate their autonomy. These, as I said, always articulate a certain narrative of00:13:00.748
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• national history that led to the historical situation in which the monument was00:13:09.151
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• created. In this sense, the memorial of German occupation on Szabadság Square00:13:15.404
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• is also a national monument. It’s no surprise that its motifs refer to the00:13:22.903
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• symbolism of the monument of Hero’s Square, as this national memorial talks00:13:30.638
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• about how national sovereignty was – in accordance with the new fundamental00:13:36.994
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• law of Hungary – lost for 46 years. And it appeared to be the case that,00:13:44.119
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• on 19 March 1944, Hungarian statehood permanently ceased to exist. The question00:13:51.912
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• is why today’s Hungarian government would commission a monument which00:13:58.807
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• suggests that, on 19 March 1944, Hungarian statehood was lost.00:14:05.420
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• This, in effect, signifies the ideal of a newly formed state. The reason they had00:14:13.972
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• to pinpoint a definitive date that marked the permanent loss of Hungarian state00:14:20.672
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• sovereignty was so the prophecy of a new Hungarian future00:14:29.129
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• – a regained, newly founded Hungarian state sovereignty – could be articulated.00:14:35.826
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• This is the underlying idea that renders this memorial meaningful.00:14:42.006
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• It’s meaningful in terms of its function to this effect. From another perspective,00:14:48.341
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• however, it’s extremely confused and, above all, dishonest.00:14:53.064
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• Especially if we approach this from the social aspect of memory. It should be00:14:59.517
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• clear that social memory is one thing, and how politics and the ruling power operate00:15:04.480
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• with and use this memory is another.00:15:09.406
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• I feel an important difference between the two memorials. One of them is00:15:14.529
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• a monument of memory politics erected – and forced into public consciousness –00:15:20.982
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• by the state. It doesn’t actually have much to do with remembering as such, rather00:15:28.302
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• it replaces the work or remembering by creating a false memory. Behind this00:15:35.583
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• “cover”, you can find real social memory, as those who are still alive remember and00:15:43.863
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• know in their guts what happened – or may have happened – in this country.00:15:51.536
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• Memory which two or three generations later we can still feel on our skin.00:15:58.865
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• One of the driving forces behind the Living Memorial was to replace the political00:16:06.497
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• appropriation of symbolic memory by a real community of people who remember.00:16:14.415
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• The nature of memory – or should I say of people – is that we only the good times00:16:40.820
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• are remembered. The memory of a society, however, must also contain times00:16:48.434
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• that were not so good. Because that is how future generations can learn and00:16:55.231
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• understand where they come from and where they are headed.00:17:04.025
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• The struggle against forgetting is the task of these counter-memorials. Politics00:17:10.994
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• always likes to free society from the burden of bad conscience, which forces00:17:17.823
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• people to remember all they have done.00:17:22.542
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• To the question of whether this was created by artists, non-artist,00:18:03.154
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• art historians, sociologists or activists, my answer is that it was created by00:18:09.742
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• intellectuals. In fact, intellectuals that had some significant task or position in this00:18:16.637
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• institutional system. So these intellectuals were involved – and not others. If we look00:18:22.957
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• at the circle of participants who first thought about this, brought the chairs out00:18:29.395
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• and sat on them and deemed the content of the thinking process worthy of realizing00:18:37.136
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• in the form of a program, this was a closed circle of intellectuals.00:18:45.043
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• The greatest thought of this intellectual circle was to interpret the position of00:18:50.425
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• the site correctly. There were self- organizing demonstrations by the00:18:58.665
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• local residents, but they did not arrive at the correct interpretation.00:19:04.643
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• They reacted much sooner and invested immense energy in their protest, but they00:19:12.092
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• went to the Western Railway Station, for example. Their thinking about how they00:19:17.758
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• should demonstrate was shaped by a completely different logic. This group,00:19:25.439
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• however, understood the codes of remembering from a professional00:19:33.971
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• standpoint. It was able to create a powerful system of symbols that was00:19:39.546
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• self-constructive. I think that they were still demonstrators, who wanted00:19:46.978
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• to demonstrate in their own way.00:19:51.985
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• A call was announced asking people to come to the site and continue this00:19:55.200
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• memory work, tell their stories, play their guitar. Being present was defined in terms00:20:02.702
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• of a cultural program. As András also mentioned, a more serious kind of work00:20:09.227
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• then began, which, rather than conceiving our presence in the framework of a00:20:17.547
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• cultural program, called for educating this conversation process. Education is a very00:20:27.040
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• simple thing: in essence, it’s about making conversation free of violence.00:20:35.442
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• Which shouldn’t be such a big deal, except that this is a conflict zone with00:20:42.270
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• police presence, where everyone is angry, people with different grievances are00:20:51.065
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• there. There are those who agree with erecting this monument or the narrative00:20:59.579
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• that is behind it – they are happy that this narrative is voiced. They argue with those,00:21:07.887
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• also there, who are emotionally affected by this, who feel vulnerable and see this00:21:14.087
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• whole process as an attack. There will be intense emotions in such a situation,00:21:21.477
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• which can be bridled. If we are successful in curbing these emotions, then the00:21:28.500
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• thinking that was initiated by the intellectual circle can be elaborated.00:21:34.953
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• We can legitimately participate in this process without excluding anyone.00:21:43.242
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• András can come there – as he does – and can feel just as much at ease as he did00:21:49.945
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• when talking with people he works with, or with his circle of friends. He has just as00:21:56.906
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• good a time. And everyone else there, who usually converse with others in other00:22:04.679
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• circles, can also enjoy themselves. It is here that counter-memory and00:22:10.979
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• dialogic memory come into play. With counter memory, what is important is that00:22:17.415
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• we are able to say something in contrast to official memory – to statements about00:22:25.582
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• our past that are forced on us. We can tell our families’ stories, which is given voice00:22:32.666
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• to by counter-memory. But if we take this and create a circle, a platform where00:22:39.758
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• everyone is given the chance to voice their own narrative, so that not only00:22:47.260
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• families but groups and narratives can express themselves and enter into debate00:22:54.392
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• with one another in a single place, we have created an action of dialogic00:23:01.247
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• memory. This is special because it is usually intellectuals that come up with00:23:07.511
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• these actions, but without participation by local residents. The participation that00:23:14.537
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• Szabolcs brought to the process with the first chair somehow became successful.00:23:20.985
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• This discussion circle actually managed to make residents feel like it was their own.00:23:27.393
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• If I remember correctly, at the beginning there was no moderation,00:23:33.343
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• only free conversation. The group that came up with and initiated this00:23:39.762
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• conversation was present in large numbers. After a while it became clear00:23:47.050
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• that there was a need for moderation. In a certain sense, this was not a traditional00:23:54.469
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• “thinking” conversation: it didn’t seek to arrive at an endpoint like it usually does in00:24:00.447
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• situations that require moderation. We use the word “moderator”, but, in fact,00:24:06.860
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• this person has the role of a kind of helper, who curbs intense emotions,00:24:14.523
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• which was necessary in this case. Routine, skill, practical considerations, and one’s00:24:20.348
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• availability were all determining factors in who became the moderator.00:24:28.849
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• A team began forming, which undertook these tasks. There were two directions00:24:35.667
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• that constituted important aspects of the program. One was memory as defined00:24:42.731
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• by András, and he often reminds me of the importance of this.00:24:49.581
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• And it IS really important. Counter-memory and dialogic memory are all00:24:55.116
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• important parts, as are participants and opposition to authority through00:25:02.221
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• memory, generational handing over, and so on.00:25:08.419
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• The other theme is how we organize society. Here, there is still the question00:25:13.446
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• of authority and our relationship to it. This is about how the will of authority has to00:25:20.509
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• be executed, and we ourselves are the executors. Why shouldn’t we be able to00:25:27.217
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• discuss with each other what we want and how? Why do we only carry out00:25:33.599
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• instructions given to us directly by the authority? How does this whole system00:25:39.575
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• work in general? There is also a third theme: education and cultural00:25:45.856
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• transmission, of which I am partly the conveyor. We put the program together00:25:51.247
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• with everyone having personal competence as to whom they can00:25:56.742
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• bring to it. We went to the Ludwig Museum to see the00:26:02.562
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• „ silence – a Holocaust” exhibition. We also participated in other cultural00:26:07.650
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• programs. We held discussions at Monitor, we had theatre discussions at00:26:14.425
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• the Bálint Jewish Community Center. If we look at these three main areas and we00:26:20.139
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• also add to memory the topic of identity, that pretty much covers the themes.00:26:27.143
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• Viki became involved on Szabadság Square after repeating Higgins’ partiture00:27:35.665
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• in a university environment. I felt that this was highly relevant so I got in touch with00:27:43.843
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• her and we started talking. She asked for some time to think it over; she had more00:27:50.130
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• of a sense of its weight than I did. Finally, she said yes. It was presented in00:27:58.080
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• conjunction with a discussion, so there was a simultaneous performance and00:28:06.358
• 00:28:06.358
• discussion. Participants also came up at that point. Other works were also00:28:14.159
• 00:28:14.159
• presented, there was a curatorial project. Tamás Don's project was presented along00:28:20.541
• 00:28:20.541
• with works by numerous young artists. We also had other actions, such as the00:28:28.039
• 00:28:28.039
• Dezső Tandori – Albert Wass reading. All of these took place within a framework of00:28:35.554
• 00:28:35.554
• discussions. So these programs always contained a discussion element, which00:28:42.232
• 00:28:42.232
• then laid the groundwork for debate.00:28:49.078
• 00:28:49.078
• There were, luckily, many moments that were cathartic from various perspectives.00:28:53.304
• 00:28:53.304
• There was identity-related catharsis, as well as catharsis of unfolding memory.00:29:01.375
• 00:29:01.375
• I find this to be a very important point: when the story brought for sharing is00:29:08.521
• 00:29:08.521
• not “pre-packaged”. This was a situation which, at the beginning, András made00:29:16.155
• 00:29:16.155
• possible – recounting a story to be recorded on video, like it was the case for00:29:23.555
• 00:29:23.555
• Ádám Csillag who made an excellent video. These are usually ready stories that00:29:30.163
• 00:29:30.163
• we have prepared for and told many times. There is another situation, which00:29:37.655
• 00:29:37.655
• András also mentioned: the wall of silence. When we don’t want to tell our00:29:45.100
• 00:29:45.100
• story, but we nevertheless need to – or our environment needs us to –00:29:52.266
• 00:29:52.266
• talk about it. Which is not an easy thing. The rememberers we call there, who have00:29:56.828
• 00:29:56.828
• prepared their stories, are already past this point. But it’s very cathartic when00:30:03.490
• 00:30:03.490
• people who have shown up to demonstrate their fear of these processes00:30:10.504
• 00:30:10.504
• repeating in society suddenly begin to speak. A man from Jánoshalma,00:30:18.370
• 00:30:18.370
• for instance, took this step. He was asked how, after him returning from00:30:25.687
• 00:30:25.687
• a labour camp and his wife from death camp, he was able to forgive those who00:30:32.659
• 00:30:32.659
• were there. He told a story that took place in a forest, where he and two other men00:30:40.892
• 00:30:40.892
• decided that if someone were to attack them, they would kill him. In the end,00:30:50.900
• 00:30:50.900
• it never came to that point. It was the strength behind this decision that never00:30:59.486
• 00:30:59.486
• made this a question for him again. Anyway, what I say here doesn’t matter,00:31:07.976
• 00:31:07.976
• what matters is how he told his story there and that this took place in00:31:13.944
• 00:31:13.944
• a complex real-life situation.00:31:19.005
• 00:31:19.005
• Various groups are active in the square. The Living Memorial with its discussion00:31:22.627
• 00:31:22.627
• format is not the only thing present there, there is also the Freedom Theatre group,00:31:30.082
• 00:31:30.082
• which is a self-organizing program series. Of course we check with each other00:31:36.002
• 00:31:36.002
• so there is no conflicting in the programs. There is also the group that was00:31:42.926
• 00:31:42.926
• previously called Tolerance Group, I am not sure what they’re called now exactly:00:31:50.454
• 00:31:50.454
• Imre Mécs and his circle who primarily organized political demonstrations.00:31:56.608
• 00:31:56.608
• There are various voices next to one another, which I think complement each00:32:03.340
• 00:32:03.340
• other well and offer various people of different tastes the opportunity to00:32:11.459
• 00:32:11.459
• participate in the whole thing. The point is, the square itself, for all intents and00:32:19.250
• 00:32:19.250
• purposes, has transformed into a space of new publicity – a new agora.00:32:26.805
• 00:32:26.805
• What is most important from our perspectives perhaps that, through this,00:32:34.696
• 00:32:34.696
• we have managed to basically diffuse the original, German occupation memorial.00:32:41.100
• 00:32:41.100
• The memorial was snuck there in secret at night time last July. Which we can regard00:32:48.213
• 00:32:48.213
• as a victory, since they didn’t dare put it up during the day in a visible manner.00:32:54.973
• 00:32:54.973
• They did it at night and suddenly it was there. They quickly gave up on any plans00:33:02.420
• 00:33:02.420
• to have an unveiling ceremony. A memorial that is not unveiled, greeted00:33:10.372
• 00:33:10.372
• by speeches and adorned with wreaths is not a memorial. It’s a dead object, which,00:33:15.053
• 00:33:15.053
• as of last spring, can be said to have been branded by its petty and filthy story. It will00:33:22.564
• 00:33:22.564
• 00:33:22.564
• 00:33:22.564
• never fulfill the function for which it had originally been created. In a certain sense,00:33:30.189
• 00:33:30.189
• this shows that we made the right decision last spring, when we decided to00:33:36.267
• 00:33:36.267
• prevent the memorial from being put up.00:33:43.404

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